Lucky_Ladybug (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
ladybug_archive) wrote2014-11-28 10:06 pm
ladybug_archive) wrote2014-11-28 10:06 pm
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More Batman: The Animated Series thoughts
So I got another Batman: The Animated Series disc today, with the second Riddler episode.
Overall, I think I liked this disc better than the last one I had out. Best episode was totally I Am the Night, where Commissioner Gordon is badly hurt and Batman blames himself for not getting there in time. Gah. He wonders if he's really doing any good in Gotham and if he should quit. He was feeling that way before, and Gordon being hurt while Batman was stopping some thugs from beating up a two-bit conman didn't help. But Dick was finally able to get through to Batman not to give up, probably a lot because the guy who shot Gordon was trying to finish the job. Batman went and found and stopped him at the hospital, Gordon woke up and there was squee, and then the two-bit conman Batman had saved earlier decided to turn his life around and thanked Batman for helping him.
I also liked Almost Got 'Im, where a bunch of crooks sit around discussing how they almost got Batman. I saw it six years ago, and it was every bit as enjoyable this time around. And I'd forgotten about Batman's awesome infiltration trick to find out what Joker did with Catwoman after Catwoman saved Batman from Joker's latest scheme, so that was cool to be surprised by anew.
Honestly, though, I wonder if I'm about the only person who really doesn't like Harley Quinn. She can be amusing, but usually annoying instead. And I definitely don't agree with the staff's commentary on her being rather innocent. She's going to kill Catwoman and make her into cat food! That is not the act of an innocent. Especially when she's not apologetic about it at all and is looking forward to it. Okay, Joker tricked her long ago in Arkham and she was naive to fall for him and that was rather sad, but it doesn't excuse her actions. And I actually think her ditziness, combined with the monstrous things she does, makes my skin crawl even more than if she wasn't ditzy, precisely because I expect a ditzy person to be sweet and cute and nice, and Harley is not nice at all. I don't like her either in this verse or on The Batman.
Birds of a Feather was sad.... Penguin thought he'd found someone who actually liked him, and he genuinely cared about her, but she was just using him because she thought he'd liven up her party. Ugh. Then things turned Phantom of the Opera-ish, with Penguin kidnapping her. Her ... business manager or someone (I was never clear on who he was) went to find her and ended up underground, coming out in the theatre, where Penguin had tied her to the chandelier, which he was going to bring down.
Sometimes it seems like The Animated Series has character designs that are way too similar. Kirk Langstrom looks a lot like the Riddler (just with a more square jaw), and his wife looks like Selina Kyle with glasses. Then another episode features a dude who looks way too much like Bruce Wayne (although I wonder a bit if that one was deliberate, since he was also a businessman and maybe they wanted to show the personality contrast). The Batman's animation style might be quirky as heck, but I don't think any two characters closely resemble each other. Of course, I'm willing to concede that when doing a show with a realistic feel, it's hard not to get some characters to look similar. I guess I'm more used to quirky animation styles, where everyone looks very different.
Also, it's interesting how The Animated Series is a clash of time periods. The police fedoras and some of the hairstyles and telephones look so 1940s-ish, yet it's definitely the modern day, with computers and technology everywhere. It looks very cool (and in some ways is similar to the modern-day world I picture in my stories), yet I wonder if it also makes the show feel a bit dated to me, whereas The Batman feels very up-to-date and modern (and easier to relate to).
And on the Riddler episode.... The plot was interesting; he's destroying all evidence of Edward Nygma, because as he says, "Edward Nygma no longer exists. I am the Riddler." He blames Batman for knowing his identity and making it public on what he tried to do to his ex-boss. (Although if he didn't want it public, maybe he shouldn't have sent the ex-boss a message on a public marquee! Good grief.) He sets up a virtual reality world for him and Batman to duke it out in.
First, let me make it clear that I really love the Riddler's voice. John Glover does a wonderful job. But ... I just don't really feel for this version of the character. I don't understand him and I don't really like him. He just seems so illogical and cold and cruel and hard to sympathize with. And this idea of him finding Batman so fascinating as an opponent isn't emphasized as much, even though apparently it's at least part of his motives. On The Batman, it's always very clear how fascinated he is to match wits with Batman.
I wonder if the idea of him and Batman as mental sparring partners didn't really exist in the era of The Animated Series, since the idea of a serious Riddler was at least somewhat new back then. Maybe it only came a lot later, with some of the semi-recent comics like Hush, and then it became part of the character's psychological makeup for The Batman cartoon as well. I definitely think it made the character better.
Also, I really didn't like that Batman needed Robin to solve most of the riddles for him. Batman really didn't seem like a good mental match for the Riddler here. He solved most of the riddles on his own in the previous episode; why did he need Robin to do it this time? I wonder if he really didn't and the writers just wanted to give Robin something to do. And on The Batman, Batman is well-versed in puzzles and riddles enough that he can match wits with the Riddler without any need for some kid to help him out.
The episode ended with the Riddler trapped in his own virtual world. Poetic justice, I suppose, but I hate when things end like that. I think he's perfectly alright in his next episode, and I'm left wondering how in the world they got him out of there!
So in the end, some good episodes for The Animated Series, but I am still not impressed with this version of the Riddler. It's really rather a shame that so many people can't get past the Marilyn Manson redesign on The Batman and see what a fascinating fellow he is there. (And the redesign really is cool anyway.)
I did end up with a plunnie.... Now I'm curious to see what would happen if the two Riddlers met and clashed. It would probably seem like they were evenly matched at first, but I'd really like The Batman Riddler to come out the victor. I'm unsure how to work that at the moment, though, since he's younger and more spry and he probably would be the favorite to win all along if going by physical attributes alone. Okay, he's not much in hand-to-hand combat, but wow, he can move. So the cliche way for the idea to go would probably involve him triumphing and then The Animated Series version being the underdog who defeats him anyway.
On the other hand, since The Batman version is generally disliked for physical appearance alone, maybe it wouldn't be entirely illogical for The Animated Series Riddler to scoff and say there's no way he would be as smart. All Riddlers have huge egos. So The Animated Series Riddler would come up with a scheme, they would play it out, and it would end with him thinking he had the upper hand. I'm thinking this is in the virtual world and The Batman Riddler apparently has a sensory overload and dies. So The Animated Series Riddler proclaims himself the victor and the better Riddler, and suddenly The Batman Riddler struggles to come back to himself. He hooks The Animated Series Riddler with his cane and drags him back to the real world with him.
EDIT: Thinking more on this, I think it would be a long oneshot. And I think it would take place after the episode I watched, What is Reality? The Animated Series Riddler would be wandering in the virtual world and somehow end up in another verse altogether, where he communicates with The Batman Riddler through his computer. LOL. They are each appalled for the other to call himself not only the Riddler, but Edward Nygma as well, and agree to a battle of wits.
Eventually The Batman Riddler would be drawn into the VR world via a local computer with VR technology, where they would continue their battle of wits, discuss their pasts and motivations, and even physically fight a bit. The Batman Riddler would win in a fight, I think; I've never seen The Animated Series Riddler fight at all. But the battle of wits would be harder to determine the outcome, since they're both very smart and very egotistical. The sensory overload thing would happen when The Animated Series Riddler leads The Batman Riddler into a trap. He thinks he's won, but The Batman Riddler proves to be more crafty and stubborn than thought. He bounces back, defeats The Animated Series Riddler in one final twist, and leaves the VR world. And I think it would end with The Animated Series Riddler waking up back in his verse, finally free of the VR world as well. Perhaps the stimulation of encountering another version of himself would be enough to break through whatever damage the VR world did to him in the episode.
I'd try to be fair to both Riddlers, of course, but since I would have things slanted more in favor of The Batman Riddler (whom I totally like better), I wonder if people would get too mad. Maybe they'd be happy for me to get The Animated Series Riddler out of the VR world, though, so it might all even out.
Overall, I think I liked this disc better than the last one I had out. Best episode was totally I Am the Night, where Commissioner Gordon is badly hurt and Batman blames himself for not getting there in time. Gah. He wonders if he's really doing any good in Gotham and if he should quit. He was feeling that way before, and Gordon being hurt while Batman was stopping some thugs from beating up a two-bit conman didn't help. But Dick was finally able to get through to Batman not to give up, probably a lot because the guy who shot Gordon was trying to finish the job. Batman went and found and stopped him at the hospital, Gordon woke up and there was squee, and then the two-bit conman Batman had saved earlier decided to turn his life around and thanked Batman for helping him.
I also liked Almost Got 'Im, where a bunch of crooks sit around discussing how they almost got Batman. I saw it six years ago, and it was every bit as enjoyable this time around. And I'd forgotten about Batman's awesome infiltration trick to find out what Joker did with Catwoman after Catwoman saved Batman from Joker's latest scheme, so that was cool to be surprised by anew.
Honestly, though, I wonder if I'm about the only person who really doesn't like Harley Quinn. She can be amusing, but usually annoying instead. And I definitely don't agree with the staff's commentary on her being rather innocent. She's going to kill Catwoman and make her into cat food! That is not the act of an innocent. Especially when she's not apologetic about it at all and is looking forward to it. Okay, Joker tricked her long ago in Arkham and she was naive to fall for him and that was rather sad, but it doesn't excuse her actions. And I actually think her ditziness, combined with the monstrous things she does, makes my skin crawl even more than if she wasn't ditzy, precisely because I expect a ditzy person to be sweet and cute and nice, and Harley is not nice at all. I don't like her either in this verse or on The Batman.
Birds of a Feather was sad.... Penguin thought he'd found someone who actually liked him, and he genuinely cared about her, but she was just using him because she thought he'd liven up her party. Ugh. Then things turned Phantom of the Opera-ish, with Penguin kidnapping her. Her ... business manager or someone (I was never clear on who he was) went to find her and ended up underground, coming out in the theatre, where Penguin had tied her to the chandelier, which he was going to bring down.
Sometimes it seems like The Animated Series has character designs that are way too similar. Kirk Langstrom looks a lot like the Riddler (just with a more square jaw), and his wife looks like Selina Kyle with glasses. Then another episode features a dude who looks way too much like Bruce Wayne (although I wonder a bit if that one was deliberate, since he was also a businessman and maybe they wanted to show the personality contrast). The Batman's animation style might be quirky as heck, but I don't think any two characters closely resemble each other. Of course, I'm willing to concede that when doing a show with a realistic feel, it's hard not to get some characters to look similar. I guess I'm more used to quirky animation styles, where everyone looks very different.
Also, it's interesting how The Animated Series is a clash of time periods. The police fedoras and some of the hairstyles and telephones look so 1940s-ish, yet it's definitely the modern day, with computers and technology everywhere. It looks very cool (and in some ways is similar to the modern-day world I picture in my stories), yet I wonder if it also makes the show feel a bit dated to me, whereas The Batman feels very up-to-date and modern (and easier to relate to).
And on the Riddler episode.... The plot was interesting; he's destroying all evidence of Edward Nygma, because as he says, "Edward Nygma no longer exists. I am the Riddler." He blames Batman for knowing his identity and making it public on what he tried to do to his ex-boss. (Although if he didn't want it public, maybe he shouldn't have sent the ex-boss a message on a public marquee! Good grief.) He sets up a virtual reality world for him and Batman to duke it out in.
First, let me make it clear that I really love the Riddler's voice. John Glover does a wonderful job. But ... I just don't really feel for this version of the character. I don't understand him and I don't really like him. He just seems so illogical and cold and cruel and hard to sympathize with. And this idea of him finding Batman so fascinating as an opponent isn't emphasized as much, even though apparently it's at least part of his motives. On The Batman, it's always very clear how fascinated he is to match wits with Batman.
I wonder if the idea of him and Batman as mental sparring partners didn't really exist in the era of The Animated Series, since the idea of a serious Riddler was at least somewhat new back then. Maybe it only came a lot later, with some of the semi-recent comics like Hush, and then it became part of the character's psychological makeup for The Batman cartoon as well. I definitely think it made the character better.
Also, I really didn't like that Batman needed Robin to solve most of the riddles for him. Batman really didn't seem like a good mental match for the Riddler here. He solved most of the riddles on his own in the previous episode; why did he need Robin to do it this time? I wonder if he really didn't and the writers just wanted to give Robin something to do. And on The Batman, Batman is well-versed in puzzles and riddles enough that he can match wits with the Riddler without any need for some kid to help him out.
The episode ended with the Riddler trapped in his own virtual world. Poetic justice, I suppose, but I hate when things end like that. I think he's perfectly alright in his next episode, and I'm left wondering how in the world they got him out of there!
So in the end, some good episodes for The Animated Series, but I am still not impressed with this version of the Riddler. It's really rather a shame that so many people can't get past the Marilyn Manson redesign on The Batman and see what a fascinating fellow he is there. (And the redesign really is cool anyway.)
I did end up with a plunnie.... Now I'm curious to see what would happen if the two Riddlers met and clashed. It would probably seem like they were evenly matched at first, but I'd really like The Batman Riddler to come out the victor. I'm unsure how to work that at the moment, though, since he's younger and more spry and he probably would be the favorite to win all along if going by physical attributes alone. Okay, he's not much in hand-to-hand combat, but wow, he can move. So the cliche way for the idea to go would probably involve him triumphing and then The Animated Series version being the underdog who defeats him anyway.
On the other hand, since The Batman version is generally disliked for physical appearance alone, maybe it wouldn't be entirely illogical for The Animated Series Riddler to scoff and say there's no way he would be as smart. All Riddlers have huge egos. So The Animated Series Riddler would come up with a scheme, they would play it out, and it would end with him thinking he had the upper hand. I'm thinking this is in the virtual world and The Batman Riddler apparently has a sensory overload and dies. So The Animated Series Riddler proclaims himself the victor and the better Riddler, and suddenly The Batman Riddler struggles to come back to himself. He hooks The Animated Series Riddler with his cane and drags him back to the real world with him.
EDIT: Thinking more on this, I think it would be a long oneshot. And I think it would take place after the episode I watched, What is Reality? The Animated Series Riddler would be wandering in the virtual world and somehow end up in another verse altogether, where he communicates with The Batman Riddler through his computer. LOL. They are each appalled for the other to call himself not only the Riddler, but Edward Nygma as well, and agree to a battle of wits.
Eventually The Batman Riddler would be drawn into the VR world via a local computer with VR technology, where they would continue their battle of wits, discuss their pasts and motivations, and even physically fight a bit. The Batman Riddler would win in a fight, I think; I've never seen The Animated Series Riddler fight at all. But the battle of wits would be harder to determine the outcome, since they're both very smart and very egotistical. The sensory overload thing would happen when The Animated Series Riddler leads The Batman Riddler into a trap. He thinks he's won, but The Batman Riddler proves to be more crafty and stubborn than thought. He bounces back, defeats The Animated Series Riddler in one final twist, and leaves the VR world. And I think it would end with The Animated Series Riddler waking up back in his verse, finally free of the VR world as well. Perhaps the stimulation of encountering another version of himself would be enough to break through whatever damage the VR world did to him in the episode.
I'd try to be fair to both Riddlers, of course, but since I would have things slanted more in favor of The Batman Riddler (whom I totally like better), I wonder if people would get too mad. Maybe they'd be happy for me to get The Animated Series Riddler out of the VR world, though, so it might all even out.