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ladybug_archiveSo I decided I wanted to watch Gotham as soon as I learned that it is indeed part of the Batman mythos. Originally, when I just knew the name, I wasn't sure and figured it wasn't related, since Gotham is sometimes used as a nickname for New York and I didn't think a Batman show would air on FOX now that there's the CW and Warner Brothers has such grabby hands about their programming.
I was surprised and excited to learn otherwise! I guess FOX probably had to pay a pretty penny to air a series about Warner Brothers characters. And I'm guessing maybe Warner actually wanted it on FOX, so it would be seen as more mainstream and adult, since the CW is known for programs catering to teenagers.
(I find it amusing that I roll my eyes and scoff at teenage programming while happily enjoying children's programming. I suppose that's because children's programming will usually have friendship and family stuff, plus it can involve characters or brands I've loved for years, whereas teenage shows tend to focus on romance problems and that makes me eyeroll.)
Anyway, so Hulu has the show and I don't have the greatest relationship with Hulu, but I struggled to watch the episodes there anyway. I may try FOX Now for the next one and see if it will play any better for me. I will be amused if it does, since network websites usually play the worst for me. So much memory....
To discuss my thoughts on the show, I will repost some of the contents of a couple of emails I wrote and add some more thoughts to them. Behind the cut in case anyone else is watching it and hasn't seen all available episodes yet....
I'm intrigued to see a series that presents kind of a clash of time periods, the way I tend to write! There's a definite feeling of Prohibition-era gangsters and such, with Fish Mooney and the gang wars and whatnot, yet it's the relative present-day and cellphones exist.
I hope to see more of Selina's kitties! There's a brief glimpse of a black-and-white one in the first episode; she steals some milk for it. And she's holding a gray one in a promo pic.
James Gordon's partner (Harvey Bullock) is aggravating. Yet on some level he intrigues me, wondering how he became so cynical. Still, I don't see how Wikipedia can say he only appears corrupt and isn't really. He tried to get Gordon to murder The Penguin, for goodness sake. He may still have some goodness in him, but he is definitely corrupt on some level.
They seem to be going with the idea from the movie Batman Returns that The Penguin is a homicidal maniac. I never liked that idea for him; he's not that way in any other carnation I've seen. He's supposed to be one of the few sane villains. He seriously gives me the creeps here.
The Riddler is a cutie. I'm hoping for more spotlight on him in future episodes.
I'm anxious to see more of Alfred and Bruce and where that goes. I'm having a terrible time understanding Alfred sometimes, though. I suppose that's why I've never thought of Ginger as Cockney; the stereotypical Cockney seems to have a higher-pitched voice and a very thick accent that isn't always easy to understand. Although I know there's Cockneys with lower voices, it isn't what I tend to think of. I'm assuming Ginger probably is meant to be Cockney, though; he uses Cockney vernacular and rhyming slang, but his voice is deep and gravelly and he doesn't drop H's.
The show is a bit graphic, particularly in the second episode, but not too much so. Usually they seem to infer the really gory things, instead of clearly displaying them. They did show one bad guy scratched up from being attacked by Selina in self-defense. But honestly, I was expecting a lot worse from a FOX show, so I'm pretty satisfied.
I no longer like Commissioner Gordon's fiancee. She expects him not to keep any secrets from her, even work secrets. That doesn't seem fair at all, considering his job. She's threatening to leave him if he won't tell her everything.
I suppose maybe she wouldn't be so insistent on knowing if her friend and former lover didn't keep telling her things that Gordon's doing that aren't right, but she already said she knew he wouldn't be capable of doing those things, and she seemed to mean it. Now, suddenly, she's switched her attitude. I suppose it was Penguin's surprise appearance on their doorstep, and Gordon's reaction, that made her wonder. The report was that Gordon killed Penguin, but in reality he just pretended to because he was being forced into it by crooked cops yet couldn't do it. He warned Penguin not to come back, but he has anyway, and Gordon is understandably shaken and upset. And Penguin used an alias, so the fiancee doesn't know he's the guy Gordon was being accused of killing.
But still ... it makes me upset that her trust would waver to that extent so quickly, just from Gordon's reaction to the visit. I wonder if she's really the one he ends up marrying. I know he must name his daughter after her, since the daughter's name is Barbara too, but I don't know at all if she's the mother.
There's a definite feeling of the series firmly being part of the Batman mythos, even with the elements that are a little different than I'm used to. (Hey, I was surprised by some of the stuff in my beloved The Batman cartoon too, and I rolled with it.) Locales like Wayne Manor and Arkham Asylum look just like they're supposed to. I'm thrilled.
Overall, at this point, I think I'd rather watch this than see the trainwreck they've been turning Once Upon a Time into. Every time I think I might be up for trying the show again, each episode seems to get worse than the one before and I am just so upset at how they've been ruining such wonderful characters and relationships! Rumpel is spiraling more and more out of control, and the tidbits I've been learning from available interviews on future plot twists make me less and less happy. I stopped being able to accept the goings-on as canon after last year's winter finale. I don't think I will ever feel different, judging by how it's going. Part of me still wants to write my own version of season 3B, continuing from my Christmas oneshot last year, but there are some Once characters I really don't connect with and don't want to write for, and the desire to write a long multi-chapter Once fic is a lot less than the desire to work on some of my other projects. And fics that are supposed to actually encompass a whole season of events are extremely difficult to write. My Sailor Moon fic is that way and it is a bear sometimes, especially since I want to focus more on character relations and interactions then fighting the new villain.
Maybe what would appeal to me instead, since I keep wanting to do something with Once, would be to just write little oneshots or something about events in Storybrooke in my version of season 3B and beyond, and mostly focus on the characters I especially like. Thoughts?
I was surprised and excited to learn otherwise! I guess FOX probably had to pay a pretty penny to air a series about Warner Brothers characters. And I'm guessing maybe Warner actually wanted it on FOX, so it would be seen as more mainstream and adult, since the CW is known for programs catering to teenagers.
(I find it amusing that I roll my eyes and scoff at teenage programming while happily enjoying children's programming. I suppose that's because children's programming will usually have friendship and family stuff, plus it can involve characters or brands I've loved for years, whereas teenage shows tend to focus on romance problems and that makes me eyeroll.)
Anyway, so Hulu has the show and I don't have the greatest relationship with Hulu, but I struggled to watch the episodes there anyway. I may try FOX Now for the next one and see if it will play any better for me. I will be amused if it does, since network websites usually play the worst for me. So much memory....
To discuss my thoughts on the show, I will repost some of the contents of a couple of emails I wrote and add some more thoughts to them. Behind the cut in case anyone else is watching it and hasn't seen all available episodes yet....
I'm intrigued to see a series that presents kind of a clash of time periods, the way I tend to write! There's a definite feeling of Prohibition-era gangsters and such, with Fish Mooney and the gang wars and whatnot, yet it's the relative present-day and cellphones exist.
I hope to see more of Selina's kitties! There's a brief glimpse of a black-and-white one in the first episode; she steals some milk for it. And she's holding a gray one in a promo pic.
James Gordon's partner (Harvey Bullock) is aggravating. Yet on some level he intrigues me, wondering how he became so cynical. Still, I don't see how Wikipedia can say he only appears corrupt and isn't really. He tried to get Gordon to murder The Penguin, for goodness sake. He may still have some goodness in him, but he is definitely corrupt on some level.
They seem to be going with the idea from the movie Batman Returns that The Penguin is a homicidal maniac. I never liked that idea for him; he's not that way in any other carnation I've seen. He's supposed to be one of the few sane villains. He seriously gives me the creeps here.
The Riddler is a cutie. I'm hoping for more spotlight on him in future episodes.
I'm anxious to see more of Alfred and Bruce and where that goes. I'm having a terrible time understanding Alfred sometimes, though. I suppose that's why I've never thought of Ginger as Cockney; the stereotypical Cockney seems to have a higher-pitched voice and a very thick accent that isn't always easy to understand. Although I know there's Cockneys with lower voices, it isn't what I tend to think of. I'm assuming Ginger probably is meant to be Cockney, though; he uses Cockney vernacular and rhyming slang, but his voice is deep and gravelly and he doesn't drop H's.
The show is a bit graphic, particularly in the second episode, but not too much so. Usually they seem to infer the really gory things, instead of clearly displaying them. They did show one bad guy scratched up from being attacked by Selina in self-defense. But honestly, I was expecting a lot worse from a FOX show, so I'm pretty satisfied.
I no longer like Commissioner Gordon's fiancee. She expects him not to keep any secrets from her, even work secrets. That doesn't seem fair at all, considering his job. She's threatening to leave him if he won't tell her everything.
I suppose maybe she wouldn't be so insistent on knowing if her friend and former lover didn't keep telling her things that Gordon's doing that aren't right, but she already said she knew he wouldn't be capable of doing those things, and she seemed to mean it. Now, suddenly, she's switched her attitude. I suppose it was Penguin's surprise appearance on their doorstep, and Gordon's reaction, that made her wonder. The report was that Gordon killed Penguin, but in reality he just pretended to because he was being forced into it by crooked cops yet couldn't do it. He warned Penguin not to come back, but he has anyway, and Gordon is understandably shaken and upset. And Penguin used an alias, so the fiancee doesn't know he's the guy Gordon was being accused of killing.
But still ... it makes me upset that her trust would waver to that extent so quickly, just from Gordon's reaction to the visit. I wonder if she's really the one he ends up marrying. I know he must name his daughter after her, since the daughter's name is Barbara too, but I don't know at all if she's the mother.
There's a definite feeling of the series firmly being part of the Batman mythos, even with the elements that are a little different than I'm used to. (Hey, I was surprised by some of the stuff in my beloved The Batman cartoon too, and I rolled with it.) Locales like Wayne Manor and Arkham Asylum look just like they're supposed to. I'm thrilled.
Overall, at this point, I think I'd rather watch this than see the trainwreck they've been turning Once Upon a Time into. Every time I think I might be up for trying the show again, each episode seems to get worse than the one before and I am just so upset at how they've been ruining such wonderful characters and relationships! Rumpel is spiraling more and more out of control, and the tidbits I've been learning from available interviews on future plot twists make me less and less happy. I stopped being able to accept the goings-on as canon after last year's winter finale. I don't think I will ever feel different, judging by how it's going. Part of me still wants to write my own version of season 3B, continuing from my Christmas oneshot last year, but there are some Once characters I really don't connect with and don't want to write for, and the desire to write a long multi-chapter Once fic is a lot less than the desire to work on some of my other projects. And fics that are supposed to actually encompass a whole season of events are extremely difficult to write. My Sailor Moon fic is that way and it is a bear sometimes, especially since I want to focus more on character relations and interactions then fighting the new villain.
Maybe what would appeal to me instead, since I keep wanting to do something with Once, would be to just write little oneshots or something about events in Storybrooke in my version of season 3B and beyond, and mostly focus on the characters I especially like. Thoughts?
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no subject
Date: 2014-10-16 10:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-10-16 12:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-10-16 07:20 pm (UTC)As far as OUAT goes, I would be behind your idea of a 3B AU 100%. If the idea of a long-winded fic puts you off it, you can do a series of inter-related snapshots/vignettes, like I'm doing for my Legacy-verse DW timeline; this lets me skip over parts of the game's plot I find dull, or not have to deal with characters I don't know how to write or simply don't want to write for, while keeping an underlying quest/plotline tying everything together. The only hiccup is that I will have to deal with that one character I'm "meh" about taking center stage, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
no subject
Date: 2014-10-16 11:29 pm (UTC)Yeah, the idea of vignette-type things, like I did with Lux Aeterna for Perry Mason, sounds much more appealing than an actual season or half-season length fic. Although I'll probably still have to figure out how to deal with writing for Hook a bit, and I don't really want to write for him at all.
That definitely is a hiccup for you. Good luck when you get to that point!
no subject
Date: 2014-10-16 10:16 pm (UTC)Once Upon A Time has had it's good and bad plot twists. I am really tired of the Mr. Gold/Ruplestiltskin/Dark One arc. I want him to actually keep his promises to Belle and Baelfire. (I don't know how to spell his name which is bad cause he was one of my favorite characters).
I also think I'm so done with Regina's back and forth vengence hungry self. But I'm going to keep watching. If things don't improve after this season, I'm probably done, too. :( Such a shame cause I loved it when it first came out. Now it feels like characters are losing what character growth they had!
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Date: 2014-10-16 11:41 pm (UTC)I don't think the writers on Once know how to write for those characters anymore. You're spot-on that they're losing the development they had. I think things stopped making sense after Neverland. They never really explained why Rumpel had to die for Pan to die. And then when they brought him back to life, his character has pretty much gone downhill from there. It frustrates me even more since he is my favorite. I'm sick of seeing them write him lie to Belle and break promises left and right. Someone had it right when they said that the heartwarming speeches he makes mean nothing now because nothing he does matches what he says. Maybe he's been irreparably damaged by Zelena's torture and Baelfire's death, but if so, they probably shouldn't have brought the character back to life. Better for him to be dead than to live and lose the traits that made me and many others like him in the beginning.
Baelfire shouldn't have even died, either. I'm afraid the writers only did it because they wanted Emma to get in with Hook. That's one of the worst possible reasons to kill a character off. I do like that he was so determined to find a way to bring his father back, but I don't like at all that it sealed his death.
And it bugs me too that most of the characters couldn't care less about what Rumpel might do after being tortured and sexually assaulted for a year, but they can all worry about what Regina might do after losing her boyfriend. And the fact that there's cause for them to worry about Regina is frustrating, too. She was supposed to have developed to the point where she felt Henry was her happy ending, not some guy. And now she's carrying on about Marian, and Robin isn't the same guy who was willing to go through torture for Marian's sake, and uggggh everything is just this big, horrible mess. You're braver and more determined than me, to keep sticking it out at this point. I am just so disappointed and frustrated by this show right now.
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Date: 2014-10-17 12:10 am (UTC)I wouldn't *mind* so much if the Hook/Emma thing happened if they had found some other way for them to deal with Neal. I mean, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Emma and Neal being on friendly terms for Henry's sake. They didn't have to pick back up and do a romance thing just because they were in the same town. Neal didn't deserve to die. :(
I hold on a to a show as long as I can possibly stand it after it starts going downhill. But Once is still intriguing enough for me, I think. I just want to see where the Frozen storyline goes. As a fan of the movie, I just gotta find out. LOL.
no subject
Date: 2014-10-17 12:58 am (UTC)Oh, totally! They probably had some silly idea that Emma would always be torn as long as Baelfire was alive and therefore he had to go. Ugh. It was the easy way out. They should have instead decided to let Emma find a way to work it out. There have been love triangles since the beginning of time, and they didn't always resolve with one triangle piece being killed off.
They could have gone in so many other directions after Neverland than the path they took. I definitely think that for the most part, they have made all the wrong decisions since then. The fans have been able to put together better stuff.
I was excited when I heard they were going to do Frozen, I'll admit. I haven't seen the film yet, but I adore the sibling squee. But when I hear all the things that are happening to the main characters like Rumpel and Regina, it upsets me so much that I still haven't got enough courage to try to brave the disaster zone in order to see the Frozen characters.