Different ways to tell a backstory
Nov. 18th, 2014 08:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ladybug_archiveSo I finally ordered a Batman: The Animated Series disc from Netflix so I could watch the first of their Riddler episodes. I've wanted to see it for six years, and Netflix is the easiest access to it, so even though I try not to order things from there unless at least two of us would be interested, I decided to get it instead of waiting until I was ready to buy the set.
I spent the afternoon watching the whole disc. I basically enjoyed all of it, although the first episode really upset me because it involved a crummy company experimenting on animals. Luckily, Batman was able to put a stop to it. And Selina Kyle's cat was one of the ones being used and it was so sad. But the kitty got the cure and Batman brought her back to Selina. It was a squeeable scene: Selina was so sad worrying about the kitty and looking at a picture of her, and then Batman lowers her in a basket to the balcony doors and Selina hears a meow and it's so cute.
Also, the Harvey Bullock in The Animated Series reminds me a little bit of Lieutenant Schrank. Heavyset, dark-haired, cynical police lieutenants wearing fedoras....
And Barbara Gordon in The Animated Series is cool. She's not an annoying Jade clone like she is to start with on The Batman.
It's always kind of a shell-shock to see The Animated Series' Joker, who seems a lot more psycho freak than The Batman character, and yet at the same time, he somehow doesn't seem quite as nuts. I know that probably doesn't exactly make sense, but to try to explain it better, The Batman's Joker often seems more ... feral? He doesn't like shoes and he often crouches instead of standing straight. And I'm eager to watch The Batman and see him again.
And on to the main prize, what I watched first: the Riddler episode. It's a backstory-ish episode, and runs some interesting parallels with the backstory on The Batman. But which one tells the story better? The answer might be surprising.
The major parallels are the following: both Riddlers invented things that were basically stolen from them by unscrupulous businessmen. They both retaliated by putting the businessmen into deathtraps. Both Riddlers are very tech-oriented and designed some amazing things. Both Riddlers first meet Batman when he tries to stop the plots against the businessmen.
The Animated Series' Riddler shows his backstory, as it is, in his first episode. The Batman's Riddler is presented as a complete enigma in season 2 and his story is only learned in season 4. This might cause some people to think The Animated Series makes more sense. But ...
On The Batman, we really learn in-depth about the character's feelings and motivations, once we get into the backstory information. We learned his home life was unhappy, that he was always into riddles and puzzles and eventually got into crime that way. We learn he tried to go straight and was unable to when his reputation was ruined and his invention stolen. Then he was filled with bitterness and turned back to crime and became the Riddler.
On The Animated Series, we only meet the Riddler moments before he's cruelly fired from the company, his "work for hire" contract being waved in his face. The businessman refuses to pay him royalty fees for the game he created. This apparently makes the fellow snap and turn to super-crime.
Um, what?
I was really expecting some build-up, seeing Nygma working on the game and being excited, and the boss being a greedy jerk as he observes, instead of just immediately showing the firing. And the character really is an enigma here; we don't really see into his mind. Of course, what happened to him is highly upsetting and it's understandable he'd be furious, but honestly, the way things are set up makes less sense than what happens to The Batman's Riddler. With him, we see his unhappiness all the way through his life. And knowing he was a crook before and tried to go straight makes his turn to super-crime much more sensible than just seeing an apparently nice guy get fired and snap. If we'd even seen a scene of his home life, or going to work, or something other than immediately showing the firing, it would feel more like we really came to know the character more. The Batman's Riddler feels more "real" and relatable because his backstory was much more fleshed-out and so was the incident of his invention being stolen.
Also, I kind of think The Batman's Riddler is a little more creative? The Animated Series' Riddler just ties the businessman to a platform and sets a time when he'll die if not rescued. The Batman's Riddler makes the businessman actually go through the deathtrap and play the game.
And while both Riddlers apparently had murder on their minds regarding the businessmen, it seems like The Animated Series' Riddler is a lot more cold. The businessman on The Batman has a chance to make it through the maze and get out alive. And with that Riddler putting lime Jell-O in the canisters around town instead of bombs in another episode, I'm not entirely sure he was ever going to actually kill the businessman. The supposed traps might have been as fake as the bombs. He might have only wanted to scare the man. And when he blew up the crates with his stolen invention, he may have intended that the businessman would watch it happen but not actually die himself. (Although by that point, it really does seem more like he meant to kill the guy. But since what he wanted was to ruin him like he was ruined himself, it seems very possible that he wanted the guy kept alive to go through the consequences of that.)
The Animated Series' Riddler also plans to cold-bloodedly kill Batman and Robin because Batman knows who he is. He tells his henchmen that they'll have to get Batman and Robin out of the way. He then puts them in the maze and his traps are undeniably lethal.
The Batman's Riddler tries to kill Batman a couple of times, but it's always a split-second emotional thing rather than precise, careful premeditation.
And it seems like Batman in The Animated Series comes to know/understand the Riddler a little too quick for believability, even saying how the brain is the only thing he respects. True, puzzles and riddles help solve the maze, but it seems a lot more understated here. And there's a lot more interaction with the Riddler himself on The Batman, making it more believable for Batman to get a good grasp of what he's like.
Both businessmen are really nasty people, although Gorman on The Batman is the worst, I think. He's not even grateful to Batman for saving him and tries to kill him along with the Riddler.
And the final blow.... In spite of this, while the businessman on The Animated Series really is the bad guy who stole the invention, and it looks like it's the same way on The Batman, instead it turns out that on The Batman it's the one person the Riddler trusted who betrayed him in order to sell out to the businessman.
I suppose some people might say that the backstory is overly tragic on The Batman, as is the current trend with many villains these days. But regardless of whether it is or not, the fact is that it's more fleshed-out since it follows him from childhood to where he is now.
Overall, I was left unsatisfied and puzzled by The Animated Series' Riddler. I want to watch his other two episodes, but I don't know if he'll be any less of a mystery to me afterwards. People may hate The Batman's Riddler redesign, but overall he seems a much more three-dimensional character.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is that I think The Animated Series was the first time they really tried to have a serious Riddler, aside from a few comic stories. I saw a clip where they talked about the Frank Gorshin Riddler and how that is what they kept thinking of and they needed to make the character different so he wouldn't be a Joker clone. The whole thing was very experimental. But it doesn't fully explain why the backstory couldn't have been fleshed out better, when they did well on other characters' backstories.
(Also, totally unrelated, but I think The Batman was closer to comic-book canon on Hugo Strange? He was a doctor at a resort here, but on The Batman and I thought in the comics, he was a psychiatrist at Arkham Asylum. I like that better, honestly.)
I find it rather amusing that I just got through saying not that long ago how The Batman can't really be compared to The Animated Series because The Animated Series is undeniably the top dog, in a class by itself. But suddenly, I'm not so sure. It will always be the better liked show, but honestly, maybe at least sometimes, it wasn't always the top creative genius in story-telling. Maybe sometimes, other approaches made more sense.
While it isn't always the case with me, for this franchise I think I will always love best the version that got me interested in the first place. I always enjoyed watching The Animated Series when I saw some of it six years ago, but I didn't like it better than The Batman and I still don't.
I think The Animated Series is a little too dark for me sometimes, whereas The Batman seems to have a pretty good balance between seriousness and humor. I'm oddly reminded of my feelings regarding the old SatAM Sonic the Hedgehog series and its corresponding comics. I didn't always like the series; I found it too dark and serious for me a lot of the time. When I watched it again more recently, I felt the same, even though I'd acquired a taste for certain darker things by that point. I liked the comics better. Reading the comics more recently, though, they seemed too silly. (And then they got confusing and dark later.) So now I don't seem to particularly like either one. Heh.
It's hard to predict what I'll like and what I won't, though. I have to take it on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes I like funny things, like the 1960s Batman. Sometimes I like darker things, like Gotham. When something reaches a certain amount of darkness, though, I probably won't like it. Same for certain kinds of humor. And I never know exactly when that feeling of "Too much!" will strike me.
Regarding The Batman, sometimes it's hard to put into words other reasons why I love it so much. Maybe because it was a new era, a more modern era, and everything seemed so bright and new, even though the show wasn't some perky laughfest like the 1960s show. It was the first time I was really immersed in the Batman world and I was entranced instead of being bored, as I'd worried I'd be. And I love Detective Yin so much. I sorely missed her while watching The Animated Series. She's so spunky, so determined, and she doesn't make me want to tear my hair out, like The Batman's Batgirl can.
Also, I have this habit of absolutely adoring prequels and "early years" stuff. That's one reason why The Batman appeals to me, too. Also why I really liked Batman Begins of the recent movies. (I liked The Dark Knight too, but not as much. It was a little too dark for my tastes.) And why Gotham totally appeals me. Prequels just excite me so much.
I'm kind of curious about the Beware the Batman cartoon, as it's also an "early years" thing, but it seems to either be using original villains or ones not as prominent in the comics, and I don't think I'd like that very much. I prefer to see things like Batman's early encounters with the characters I know and already care about.
I spent the afternoon watching the whole disc. I basically enjoyed all of it, although the first episode really upset me because it involved a crummy company experimenting on animals. Luckily, Batman was able to put a stop to it. And Selina Kyle's cat was one of the ones being used and it was so sad. But the kitty got the cure and Batman brought her back to Selina. It was a squeeable scene: Selina was so sad worrying about the kitty and looking at a picture of her, and then Batman lowers her in a basket to the balcony doors and Selina hears a meow and it's so cute.
Also, the Harvey Bullock in The Animated Series reminds me a little bit of Lieutenant Schrank. Heavyset, dark-haired, cynical police lieutenants wearing fedoras....
And Barbara Gordon in The Animated Series is cool. She's not an annoying Jade clone like she is to start with on The Batman.
It's always kind of a shell-shock to see The Animated Series' Joker, who seems a lot more psycho freak than The Batman character, and yet at the same time, he somehow doesn't seem quite as nuts. I know that probably doesn't exactly make sense, but to try to explain it better, The Batman's Joker often seems more ... feral? He doesn't like shoes and he often crouches instead of standing straight. And I'm eager to watch The Batman and see him again.
And on to the main prize, what I watched first: the Riddler episode. It's a backstory-ish episode, and runs some interesting parallels with the backstory on The Batman. But which one tells the story better? The answer might be surprising.
The major parallels are the following: both Riddlers invented things that were basically stolen from them by unscrupulous businessmen. They both retaliated by putting the businessmen into deathtraps. Both Riddlers are very tech-oriented and designed some amazing things. Both Riddlers first meet Batman when he tries to stop the plots against the businessmen.
The Animated Series' Riddler shows his backstory, as it is, in his first episode. The Batman's Riddler is presented as a complete enigma in season 2 and his story is only learned in season 4. This might cause some people to think The Animated Series makes more sense. But ...
On The Batman, we really learn in-depth about the character's feelings and motivations, once we get into the backstory information. We learned his home life was unhappy, that he was always into riddles and puzzles and eventually got into crime that way. We learn he tried to go straight and was unable to when his reputation was ruined and his invention stolen. Then he was filled with bitterness and turned back to crime and became the Riddler.
On The Animated Series, we only meet the Riddler moments before he's cruelly fired from the company, his "work for hire" contract being waved in his face. The businessman refuses to pay him royalty fees for the game he created. This apparently makes the fellow snap and turn to super-crime.
Um, what?
I was really expecting some build-up, seeing Nygma working on the game and being excited, and the boss being a greedy jerk as he observes, instead of just immediately showing the firing. And the character really is an enigma here; we don't really see into his mind. Of course, what happened to him is highly upsetting and it's understandable he'd be furious, but honestly, the way things are set up makes less sense than what happens to The Batman's Riddler. With him, we see his unhappiness all the way through his life. And knowing he was a crook before and tried to go straight makes his turn to super-crime much more sensible than just seeing an apparently nice guy get fired and snap. If we'd even seen a scene of his home life, or going to work, or something other than immediately showing the firing, it would feel more like we really came to know the character more. The Batman's Riddler feels more "real" and relatable because his backstory was much more fleshed-out and so was the incident of his invention being stolen.
Also, I kind of think The Batman's Riddler is a little more creative? The Animated Series' Riddler just ties the businessman to a platform and sets a time when he'll die if not rescued. The Batman's Riddler makes the businessman actually go through the deathtrap and play the game.
And while both Riddlers apparently had murder on their minds regarding the businessmen, it seems like The Animated Series' Riddler is a lot more cold. The businessman on The Batman has a chance to make it through the maze and get out alive. And with that Riddler putting lime Jell-O in the canisters around town instead of bombs in another episode, I'm not entirely sure he was ever going to actually kill the businessman. The supposed traps might have been as fake as the bombs. He might have only wanted to scare the man. And when he blew up the crates with his stolen invention, he may have intended that the businessman would watch it happen but not actually die himself. (Although by that point, it really does seem more like he meant to kill the guy. But since what he wanted was to ruin him like he was ruined himself, it seems very possible that he wanted the guy kept alive to go through the consequences of that.)
The Animated Series' Riddler also plans to cold-bloodedly kill Batman and Robin because Batman knows who he is. He tells his henchmen that they'll have to get Batman and Robin out of the way. He then puts them in the maze and his traps are undeniably lethal.
The Batman's Riddler tries to kill Batman a couple of times, but it's always a split-second emotional thing rather than precise, careful premeditation.
And it seems like Batman in The Animated Series comes to know/understand the Riddler a little too quick for believability, even saying how the brain is the only thing he respects. True, puzzles and riddles help solve the maze, but it seems a lot more understated here. And there's a lot more interaction with the Riddler himself on The Batman, making it more believable for Batman to get a good grasp of what he's like.
Both businessmen are really nasty people, although Gorman on The Batman is the worst, I think. He's not even grateful to Batman for saving him and tries to kill him along with the Riddler.
And the final blow.... In spite of this, while the businessman on The Animated Series really is the bad guy who stole the invention, and it looks like it's the same way on The Batman, instead it turns out that on The Batman it's the one person the Riddler trusted who betrayed him in order to sell out to the businessman.
I suppose some people might say that the backstory is overly tragic on The Batman, as is the current trend with many villains these days. But regardless of whether it is or not, the fact is that it's more fleshed-out since it follows him from childhood to where he is now.
Overall, I was left unsatisfied and puzzled by The Animated Series' Riddler. I want to watch his other two episodes, but I don't know if he'll be any less of a mystery to me afterwards. People may hate The Batman's Riddler redesign, but overall he seems a much more three-dimensional character.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is that I think The Animated Series was the first time they really tried to have a serious Riddler, aside from a few comic stories. I saw a clip where they talked about the Frank Gorshin Riddler and how that is what they kept thinking of and they needed to make the character different so he wouldn't be a Joker clone. The whole thing was very experimental. But it doesn't fully explain why the backstory couldn't have been fleshed out better, when they did well on other characters' backstories.
(Also, totally unrelated, but I think The Batman was closer to comic-book canon on Hugo Strange? He was a doctor at a resort here, but on The Batman and I thought in the comics, he was a psychiatrist at Arkham Asylum. I like that better, honestly.)
I find it rather amusing that I just got through saying not that long ago how The Batman can't really be compared to The Animated Series because The Animated Series is undeniably the top dog, in a class by itself. But suddenly, I'm not so sure. It will always be the better liked show, but honestly, maybe at least sometimes, it wasn't always the top creative genius in story-telling. Maybe sometimes, other approaches made more sense.
While it isn't always the case with me, for this franchise I think I will always love best the version that got me interested in the first place. I always enjoyed watching The Animated Series when I saw some of it six years ago, but I didn't like it better than The Batman and I still don't.
I think The Animated Series is a little too dark for me sometimes, whereas The Batman seems to have a pretty good balance between seriousness and humor. I'm oddly reminded of my feelings regarding the old SatAM Sonic the Hedgehog series and its corresponding comics. I didn't always like the series; I found it too dark and serious for me a lot of the time. When I watched it again more recently, I felt the same, even though I'd acquired a taste for certain darker things by that point. I liked the comics better. Reading the comics more recently, though, they seemed too silly. (And then they got confusing and dark later.) So now I don't seem to particularly like either one. Heh.
It's hard to predict what I'll like and what I won't, though. I have to take it on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes I like funny things, like the 1960s Batman. Sometimes I like darker things, like Gotham. When something reaches a certain amount of darkness, though, I probably won't like it. Same for certain kinds of humor. And I never know exactly when that feeling of "Too much!" will strike me.
Regarding The Batman, sometimes it's hard to put into words other reasons why I love it so much. Maybe because it was a new era, a more modern era, and everything seemed so bright and new, even though the show wasn't some perky laughfest like the 1960s show. It was the first time I was really immersed in the Batman world and I was entranced instead of being bored, as I'd worried I'd be. And I love Detective Yin so much. I sorely missed her while watching The Animated Series. She's so spunky, so determined, and she doesn't make me want to tear my hair out, like The Batman's Batgirl can.
Also, I have this habit of absolutely adoring prequels and "early years" stuff. That's one reason why The Batman appeals to me, too. Also why I really liked Batman Begins of the recent movies. (I liked The Dark Knight too, but not as much. It was a little too dark for my tastes.) And why Gotham totally appeals me. Prequels just excite me so much.
I'm kind of curious about the Beware the Batman cartoon, as it's also an "early years" thing, but it seems to either be using original villains or ones not as prominent in the comics, and I don't think I'd like that very much. I prefer to see things like Batman's early encounters with the characters I know and already care about.
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no subject
Date: 2014-11-27 03:16 am (UTC)If I had to guess, it might be that they like things to be a little more black-and-white? If the Riddler became a supercriminal for something as... um, mundane as that, he might have been intended to come off as overreacting? I DUNNO.
Also, I reread Don't Go Out On Friday Night, and I have to complement you on your ability to weave a mystery again! Gotta get to work on the next two fics.
no subject
Date: 2014-11-27 03:23 am (UTC)That is pretty much how The Animated Series came off, I think, like that he was overreacting. The Batman's version made so much more sense. I guess I don't like things to be so black-and-white.
Aww, thank you! :) I'm pretty proud of the Batman fics.